Villanova drops from rankings
posted by Pete @ LetsGoNova.com1/28/2008 02:12:00 PM
Villanova fell completely out of the college basketball top 25 rankings this week in both the ESPN/USA Today coaches' poll and the Associated Press media poll.
The Wildcats had been ranked #18 in both polls last week.
I was wrong when I predicted Villanova would not receive any votes. Villanova finished the equivalent of 36th in the AP poll and 32nd in the coaches' survey.
The Wildcats had been ranked #18 in both polls last week.
I was wrong when I predicted Villanova would not receive any votes. Villanova finished the equivalent of 36th in the AP poll and 32nd in the coaches' survey.
27 Comments:
This is a horrendous black eye in the history of the University.
Two Questions
1) Is this the largest drop in the rankings for any Villanova team?
2) Where does this rank among all time drops in the history of the NCAA?
Considering that #16 Dayton also fell out of the rankings today, I'm not sure Villanova's fall is among the all-time drops.
Forget about it.... Let's just beat PITT.... again!!
Any word on why Andrew Ott is leaving (besides the PR on the Villanova.com website)?
On Saturday, the ‘Cats looked young, disorganized and short. The first two come with coaching and time, but the transfer made us shorter. Although Ott was not contributing this year, he was relatively tall (compared to the rest of the ‘Cats) and ambulatory (Let's just say, he’s no Paul Vrind). Who knows how he may develop…
I still have faith in Coach Wright, and we all love Cunningham, Drummond, and Pena. But we are not deep in the front court and just got shallower without a potential recruit over 6-8 through 2010 (per Scout.com).
I would assume Ott is leaving over playing time.
Pete,
Not to marginalize your response, but I was looking for information beyond his obvious lack of playing time.
Well I don't know what else there really is... He was clearly behind Drummond, Dante, and Pena on the depth chart. Looks like he will play a lot more at Penn State. I didn't hear about any other factors like disagreement with the staff or anything like that.
I don't think this is a "black eye" in the history of the University. The team is just playing to their potential. A black eye is the misuse of phone cards. Ten years ago it would have been a black eye, but with the "one and done" atmosphere of college basketball now, it's part of the acclimation process. The best thing for this team is to make a post season tournament. We all would like it to be the NCAA tourney, but playing in the NIT is not the worst thing in the world for a very young team.
matadorm,
Is this your first season of watching college basketball? You must be a frosh. I mean seriously, it's not that big of a deal to fall from the rankings. Nova is rebuilding and I wouldn't expect them to make a run at the final four this year. You clearly have not lived through the kerry kittle era or the early jay wright era.
Guys, stop knocking matadorm. He brings up some good points. I'm so tired of hearing about how senior leadership is so necessary for the success of a team. All of these guys have probably been playing since they were toddlers, so they have PLENTY of experience. Seniors have just experienced 5% more basketball in their lives than juniors, 10% more than sophmores, and 15% more than freshmen. In fact, somebody like Corey Fisher probably has more experience than Dante because of playing on AAU and high school teams all year round. (I'm not knocking Dante, he has been our most consistent performer)
They have all played in intense AAU and high school games in their lives. Just because we do not have seniors does not prevent us from getting things done, and winning games.
Lets face it, this team is underachieving, and it's not because we don't have seniors. It is rather a lack of motivation, hustle, and effort. We just don't have a player like Lowry or Nardi who is willing to fully committ themselves and PLAY A FULL 40 MINUTES. (Or however many minutes they get)
Villanova is a top 25 team and an NCAA tournament team if things start to click soon.
i agree with gregg that these guys do have a lot of experience, but college basketball is a lot different than high school and below. there's a completely different atmosphere and style of play, and a lot more pressure. Stokes even said how different it is and how hard it is to acclamate to.
Anyways, i'm very worried for pitt. We seem to be losing confidence and heart fast, and we won't have the home court advantage this time. I know we CAN win it, but its gonna take a full 40 of playing hard.
How many SENIORS were on the Villanova team that got Ripped off in the Elite 8 by UNC three years ago?
I blame this bad streak on no one but Shane Clark. Man that kid is playing awful, he is pretty bad though I'm not going to lie. Jay has a "man crush" on him for some odd reason. He keeps finding the starting lineup every game regardless of his poor play. I'd honestly rather have Colenda start over Clark at this point. Also what lost us that ND game was this horrible rotation that was on the court at once which was the following, Reynolds, Clark, Anderson, Redding, and Cunningham. OMG that was the worst display of basketball between those guys ever displayed. Not one threat out there to score outside of 7 feet besides Reynolds. Man oh man was that bad.
When I compare this team to Syracuse before the season, taking in account of the loss of Rautins, not Devendorf, why Villanova was considered better than Syracuse by most people was beyond me. The returning players for both teams was about equal, and Syracuse's freshman class is obviously better than Villanova's even though 'nova's is pretty good.
We are only now finally seeing that Villanova is just isn't very good this year. Wait til next year, that's what I'll be doing in the frozen tundra of Syracuse.
As much as I don't like Villanova, they will be good next year, but this year they are maybe at best the eighth best team in the Big East. If they get to 10-8, I'd be shocked, 9-9 or 8-10 is likely.
--Cuseadelphia.com--
matadorm you are a clown. dropping from the rankings is a black eye? we shouldn't have been ranked in the first place. we have hardly any size to begin with and our starting center is out. give them time and the team will live up to its "potential."
you can't compare this team to the team that lost to unc in the tourney 3 years ago. that team had 2 juniors who were all americans the next year in foye and ray, a true center who was semi healthy in jason fraser (we have none), a stud junior forward in curtis sumpter, a freshman point guard who left for the nba the next year in lowry, and a strong supporting cast in nardi and sheridan. not to mention, those guards were all bigger, and could defend and rebound much better than any of our current guards. not even a comparison at this point.
Wright's perspective: "(The losses are) humbling, and that's not a bad thing. I'd rather not go through it, but being humble is not a bad thing. We've all got to go through it. Our good teams went through it and as long as you're hungry and keep working hard, I don't have a problem being humbled."
article
Let's count the errors Todd just made:
1) that team had 2 juniors who were all americans the next year in foye and ray,
They were all american NEXT year. At that point, they were establishing themselves.
2)a true center who was semi healthy in jason fraser
He already had MAJOR knee surgery! That is Semi-Healthy?!?!
3) a stud junior forward in curtis sumpter,
Sumpter was OUT for the UNC game. He did not play!
4) a freshman point guard who left for the nba the next year in lowry,
Lowry played another full season before he left.
5) not to mention, those guards were all bigger, and could defend and rebound much better than any of our current guards.
Those guards did NOT get rebound by size, but by position. And how did they get in position? THEY HUSTLED!
6) not even a comparison at this point.
I agree. I clearly understand College Basketball more than you do. Do not compare yourself to me anymore.
first, if you are going to throw the size argument out the window you are out of your mind. we have three small point guards on this team- none of which are big enough to defend a guard over 6'3'. sumpter was out for the unc game but we lost the game. he played the rest of the season, and was probably the biggest reason for our success. fraser played more than half the game and played excellent defense on sean may- a main reason we were in the game. foye had 28 points and almost left for the nba-that's still developing?
still developing is the freshman guards we have on our team now- our leaders on that team were juniors. the real comparison for this team should be the '03 and '04nova teams that went to the nit when foye/ray/sumpter were freshman and sophomores. your expectations are extremely overblown.
Despite reading the numerous informative posts and arguments by Todd, Matadorm83 and others, I'm not sure I fully buy into any one of the particular reasons given for Nova's latest slide. To me the team has plenty of talent and on a good day they're a quality Top 25 team. Unfortunately, there haven't been many of these good days over the season, and thus what we are seeing is only glimpses of the team's potential.
I think that due to a number of intangibles and once in a while a poor lineup, the team hasn't done that well lately. Again though, I feel as if the team is just barely not clicking together, and that when they do start firing on all cylinders they will be a very formidable team. Whether that is later this season or not until next year remains to be seen.
The biggest problem with this team is a lack of motivation and a lack of hustle. That is the primary responsibility of the coach
I think that everyone's argument has some validity here. If you check out Kenpom's site it has some good stats, and lets you really see whats going on.
http://kenpom.com/sr.php?team=Villanova
For all the people complaning about lack of experience, yes it might be a factor. Villanova's average age is 0.9 years, which is 327th out of 334 teams in D-1! Thats rediculously young. But you can't blame everything on just their youth. Looking more at the stats, Nova has been AWFUL against the 3(As we've all seen), 317th in the nation! Even if the guys are young Jay needs to make some adjustments to tighten up around the perimiter, if it means using new personell or switching defensive schemes, I don't know.
Another thing that you notice is that the offesnive nubmers aren't great. In the mid 100s in both 2pt and 3pt%. When your defense against the 2 is only average, and your defense against the 3 is absurdly bad, you're going to lose a fair number of games.
Compare this team to last years, just looking at offensive/defensive efficency. This year we're 48th and 150th in the nation, respectivly. Last year we were 74th and 64th. We have a better offense this year, as you can see when the team gets hot and looks like world-beaters, but much worse defense. We're a good team, but lets not get bent out of shape over some losses, we have significant flaws in the defense. Maybe as the season goes on, or even next year the team will mesh better and get better on D, till then we are capable of giving anyone a run for their money, but not a day-in day-out great team.
Matadorm-
You have no clue about anything you are talking about. The previous statement about you being a frosh is an obvious insult to freshman. Even the drunken idiots in Fedigan have a greater grasp of college basketball than you do. Go back to watching hockey.
For the rest of you, the real issue with this team is Herndon, VA's finest and our own Naismith candidate Scottie Renyolds and Jay Wright's decision to stick with him even when he's 5-19 from the field with 4 turnovers.
Jay Wight should just let Pat Chambers, the assistant coach, give the team the motivational speeches that they need. This would be a better attempt at getting them to hustle and play hard, for the full 40 minutes. I'm serious, Pat Chambers has much more fire than Jay. If Jay decides to leave within the next 5 years or so, Pat Chambers would be a great replacement.
Talk about crying wolf!!! Gregg have you ever even met Jay Wright? Have you been in the same room as him when he gives a speech? He is probably the most motivational and inspiring speaker on Villanova's campus, and i've seem him fire up both a team and a crowd full of people on several occasions.
I guess you're right though, there's no fire in Jay Wright, which would explain the way he is so dramatic on the sidelines every game and always gets a couple technicals during the season for yelling at the refs.
Villanova is a team full of freshmen and sophomores, yet at this point its losing streak of two games in a row is its longest such streak of the entire season. We're coming off three straight years of making the NCAA tournament, including an elite 8 and sweet 16 run. Now all of a sudden the coach can't coach, has no passion for the game and should be fired?
As for Scottie, granted he doesn't average 28 points a game, but come on. The guy was Big East rookie of the year, the player of the week a couple weeks back and still the team's highest scorer. Yes at times his shooting stroke goes cold and he continues to take shots, but show me ANYONE that can go 5-8 on the 3 every single game.
These guys are plenty good, they're just not playing well as a unit right now but it will come. I agree with JA's comments above that this team has shown some real flashes of brilliance, but just haven't been able to do so on a consistent basis. Come the Big East tournament and (probably) NCAA tournament, this will be a dangerous team that nobody will want to face.
Voice of Reason:
How good a job did Jay Wright do firing up the crowd at the end of the ND game? They were cursing him out to put in Grant! THAT is firing up a crowd?
jrmiller,
You obviously have issues with Scottie Reynolds. Why don't you pretend he is a giant speaker/amplifier, and give him what he has coming?
Voice of reason,
I never stated that I want Jay to be fired. There have just been rumors that he may leave in the next 5 years. I believe that he is a good coach, with the exception of being able to fire up his team. Yes, I have heard him give speeches, and he is an excellent speaker. However, he is not the type of person who has the ability to rally his players coming out of halftime. All of our second half comebacks have come with 10 minutes or less left in the second half. I am not against Jay Wright, he knows what he's doing, but he lacks what I have stated.
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